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Talk:Goldi Nahir/@comment-27565382-20160109213728/@comment-3284502-20160113062003
I didn't say your POV was laughable. I said one of your arguements was. Nice try though. A) Pants is still more than what the ladies had. As Maya said, they had tons of cleavage and bare legs. B) 1) Yael being a girl does not magically give the game representation points. It gives the team more representation, but not the game itself. 2) If the game had more female characters than just that one sequence, why didn't Hunter just say so? It would've helped his arguement a lot better than shifting the subject to Yael being on the team. Since he didn't, and neither did anybody else, I think it's fair to assume there are no more female characters. If there were, or if you could choose to play as a girl, why didn't anybody bring that up? Shifting the point only made it seem more likely that yeah, there were no others. And Yael being on the team does absolutely nothing to invalidate that because she cannot give the game representation points, only the team. Goldi never said the team had no representation, she just said the game didn't other than that one sequence. I do agree the problem with lack of women in gaming competitions is down to socialization, much like STEM, however that doesn't invalidate critique of the game itself. And while the industry itself may not be sexist, it IS a huge problem that there are so few women involved in those fields, hence the push to get more women into those fields. Goldi never said jack about their being no girls on the other teams - that was Tristan. All Goldi did was ask if there was other female representation in the game, and Hunter dodged the question (basically hinting the answer is "no".) C) Suspension of disbelief varies. I do not believe that because I know how high schools work and I know they got that wrong. D) Again, considering how much each game in each rating varies, I'm not comfortable saying it's not an M. There ARE M games with more whimsical looking graphics and we don't know anything about the mechanics. It may not involve graphic sexual content, but who knows? For all we know, it's an M for violence. E) Don't put words in my mouth. I never said they weren't contributing to hypermasculinization. I said they're not drawn that way to be sexy. They're designed that way to look exactly as you said - strong, muscular, tall. Tough to sum it up. We are not supposed to be looking at them and saying "Wow, they're sexy". We're supposed to be thinking they're badass. F) Most main characters in video games are designed to be self inserts. Whether or not people actually DO insert themselves into the character is something else. The character doesn't have to be relatable to be a self insert either - they can be idealized self inserts too. Superman, for instance, isn't supposed to be an insert because he's what people relate too - he's supposed to be what they WANT to be. And yeah, that idea is harmful too, but the idea isn't "lets make them look this way to turn on female players" the idea is "lets make a tough looking stereotypically alpha male guy". Do you honestly believe they design female characters with their T&A hanging out because they want to make them look powerful? No, they're thinking of something sexy to get gamers drooling over them. That's not to say a sexy female character cannot be tough as well, but the intent is to titillate, not turn into a power fantasy/idealized tough character. There is a difference between "Sexy' and "sexualized'. Almost all characters in any visual media tends to be conventionally attractive - that's true across the board (and another problem entirely, but I'll save that rant for another day). SexualIZED on the other hand, tends to happen way more to female characters, as they tend to be the ones with massively oversized tits, asses, and sex organs with lots of attention drawn to them. Take a look at, for example, Ivy from Soul Calibur 4. And then take a look at, say, Siegfried. The difference? NOBODY IS SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AT SIEGFRIED'S DICK THE WAY THEY ARE IVY'S TITS. Yeah, we're supposed to look at his huge muscles, but not so we can go "sexy' it's so we can go "oh, wow, this guy looks super strong! I bet he's kickass." I'm also pretty comfortable saying the majority of male characters will never be twisted into back breaking poses so people can simultaneously ogle their chests and their asses. They are probably not going to be posing with their asses or dick or what the fuck ever sticking out. I am most likely not going to have to look at their outfits and wonder how the fuck they stay on. We're probably not going to see upskirt shots of their dicks/asses either. They are not going to have dicks defy gravity the way boobs do all the damn time so they can turn on people watching. I'm probably not going to think their outfit is better suited for a bikini contest or have to justify their costumes with "Oh, they're invulnerable, it's okay". Again, there's a difference between sexy and sexualizing. Saying someone is sexy or that, were it possible, you would have sex with a hot celeb is one thing. That happens nearly across the board, you're right. However, I've never seen people go on and on about guy's dicks or anything like that. I've never seen lists based on whether or not they've been in a magazine designed specifically to tittilate others. I've never seen an article about a male celebrity accidentally exposing himself while rescuing his drowning child and nanny. Google "hottest female celebrities 2015" and there's over three million more results than there are for male counterparts. Google "wardrobe malfunction" or change hottest to sexiest and there is no comparison, especially in result numbers. Again, I've never seen photos posed to make men show off their asses or dicks. I've never seen people make galleries of celebrity dicks (we had someone a while ago who had tons of pics of Degrassi actresses boobs and ranked them by breast size). I've never seen people photoshop guys for magazines to make their schlongs bigger the way they do boobs. There's also a difference in how people treat said things. Guys making lists of "sexiest women" is normal, "boys will be boys" behaviour and people need to stop complaining about it if you listen to them. Girls talking about how they find a male celeb sexy or want to have sex is seen as immature, gross, inappropriate, or being a "horny/dumb fangirl who doesn't know anything else about them". Part of that is because men are socialized to be more sexually aggressive, yes, but it is also still a double standard. But really, the proof is in pudding - "sexiest female celebrities 2015" brings up 50 million google results. Sexiest male brings up almost three million. That should show how much more widespread the issue is with sexualizing women than sexualizing men is. Also, most of the comments on here have to do with how much they love the actor. Not very many proportionately are about finding them attractive, and even fewer are about wanting sex. Those that are tend to be very joking, casual, and the people involved know it's never going to happen. Basically - your average celebrity crush. There's little or no reducing them to body parts, long and explicit waxing over how they'd have sex with them, and no hints of creeping/violence on them. And I repeat - the majority of the comments are NOT like that. Meanwhile, look at some of the comments for any article about sexy female celebrities. Look at lists of female video game or comic book characters versus how many there are for guys. How many comments about female characters do you find that are mainly creepy stuff about their boobs, asses, or how little clothing they wear (see my earlier point about why women are drawn that way). Hell, go on IMDB and see how many user lists there are for "Sexy/Hot/"Exotic" (ugh, that last one makes my skin crawl) Actresses" versus how many there are for actors. Watch the number go way up if you want to include reducing them to their looks via things like "Pretty, Beautiful, etc." I'm not saying men are never sexualized or objectified ever, but I am saying that asserting that they are sexualized just as much as women are is simply not true.